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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Tigers and even more Tigers!
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 07:26 AM UTC
kind of a dumb question I know, and this will also show how little I know about Tiger tanks!

Planning a Tiger build sometime in the near future, and need to buy a kit, or yank one out of the stash (I have have three mid production Tiger I's). The subject is Otto Carrius on the Leningrad Front. Now did he use a Tiger IP or was it a mid or later tank? The few photos I've seen look like his tank had zimmerit, but also have old eyeballs.

* Now I need to obtain a kit (Dragon of course)
* I'd like to use Cavalier zimmerit, and need to know which kit to order.
* have have two turned barrels, so I think I'm OK there
* The next issue is the tracks. Which set do I need?

Thanks in advance
gary
Byrden
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Wien, Austria
Joined: July 12, 2005
KitMaker: 2,232 posts
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 08:07 AM UTC
Tiger research has reached the point where a checklist of about 50 items is needed to characterise a Tiger. So, we need to know how accurate you want to get.

Also, Herr Carius used two Tigers, "213" which was an Early, then "217" which was a Mid. His accounts are pretty vague on this point, but we think we have photos of both tanks.

We also need to know which kits you have.

David
bizzychicken
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Wales, United Kingdom
Joined: September 06, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 08:18 AM UTC
I've got Tigers in the mud The combat career of Otto Carius(stackpolemilitary history series) Every photo in it is of an early Tiger I Drum cupolas factory fresh finish Dunkelgleb(Yellow)No Zim, turret No Black213. Large German cross near back side. With 1st outer wheel missing. This was is original tiger after that he wwould have surely got a later model. Have'nt read all the book but the leningrad front is near the beginning not long after he got his Tiger so I'd think it would be an early tiger, but I'm only going on the book. The best person to ask is Richard (the Bear), he is a Tigerholic Hope this helps Geraint
Byrden
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Wien, Austria
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 08:56 AM UTC
That Tiger is an Early, and the simplest way to build it is from this kit;



There are 4 photos of the tank at TIIF.DE ; but are there any more in your book? I can't see enough to be sure of all its features.

David
bizzychicken
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Wales, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 09:14 AM UTC
Sorry David I was thinking of you when I said (The Bear)DOORR Geraint The picture's ive got of 213 have all the smoke cans on it 3 each side of turret and 1 on each corner, does this help, also the air filters and strait cut outs for D shackels, shovel on front top plate and it says the drum cupolar was welded. hope this helps
Byrden
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Wien, Austria
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 09:41 AM UTC
Has it got eyeholes above the driver's visor? Which kind of Feifels has it? Is there a photo of the rear decking?

David

trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 10:47 AM UTC
I've read the book, and it's a good read all the way thru. In it, he does speak of the two different cupolas, but never seemed to call it out as early, mid, or late. I'm thinking the older one was an "IP", and the other was a mid production tank. This make any sense?

OK, now looking thru my stash, I have the Tamiya kit of Carious' mid production tank. Plus a set of A.M. tracks, barrel, and a Voyager PE set. Looks like I need a resin Zimmerit set. The two Dragon kits are buried deep in my stash (I can't even see the boxes), plus there is one late Tiger I from maybe Tamiya that I have no idea where it is right now. I think I'm going to order in the Dragon early kit this week, and do both kits. Believe it or not, I've never put toegther a Tiger in my life, so expect a few questions as I move thru the next adventure in life.
gary
Byrden
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Wien, Austria
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 10:58 AM UTC
You didn't tell us the scale of these kits, so I have to wonder what you mean by "Dragon Early". They never produced an Early Tiger in 1/35; just two releases of an Initial Tiger, which isn't suitable for your project.

Cyber Hobby had this kit, which would be useful except that it's out of production and pricey;



Tamiya's "Carius" is suitable for his second tank, except for the mantlet for the gun; it should be the old flat type, not the one shown in the box art;



Maybe the necessary part is included in the kit, I don't know offhand.

David

trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
Armorama: 1,357 posts
Posted: Monday, March 05, 2012 - 07:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

You didn't tell us the scale of these kits, so I have to wonder what you mean by "Dragon Early". They never produced an Early Tiger in 1/35; just two releases of an Initial Tiger, which isn't suitable for your project.

Cyber Hobby had this kit, which would be useful except that it's out of production and pricey;



Tamiya's "Carius" is suitable for his second tank, except for the mantlet for the gun; it should be the old flat type, not the one shown in the box art;



Maybe the necessary part is included in the kit, I don't know offhand.

David




Dragon has an early out (least they say it is) in the Leningrad boxing. Am I wrong to assume that it's an early Tiger?

Anyway I've selected the Tamiya mid Tiger kit (the Otto Carious boxing [tank 217]). Got everything I need except for the Cavalier zimmerit. Just looked inside the box, and I find the Eduard zimmerit set for the Tamiya 35194 kit number, a Voyager PE set for the same kit number, and a set of AT-06 Fruils. The kit also comes with a set of tracks that look like the Model Kasten set, but are tamiya labled. What do you all think of the Eduard zimmerit set?
gary
Byrden
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Posted: Monday, March 05, 2012 - 07:34 AM UTC
These kits;



represent what we now call an "initial" Tiger from late 1942. To convert it for Carius' Tiger 213 you would need quite a lot of extra parts.

David
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 09:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

These kits;



represent what we now call an "initial" Tiger from late 1942. To convert it for Carius' Tiger 213 you would need quite a lot of extra parts.

David



what extra piece would I need to build #213?
gary
Byrden
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Posted: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 09:48 AM UTC
To bring this;



up to this;



you will need to;

Reinforce the holes on the glacis plate
Add a track cable on the hull side
Add a full tool set
Add the cylindrical convoy tail light
Add a shovel on the glacis
Reinforce the gun mantlet
Add the emergency escape hatch
Add a tool stowage box
Extend the hull side at the front
Change the starter plate mount
Add the standard mudflaps, front and rear
Move the antenna storage box
Delete the rear antenna base
Reverse the tow cables
Add the S-Mine system
Add the exhaust muffler guards
Add the final version of the side fenders
Add the standard baggage bin
Add a gun cleaning rod and move and shorten all the rods and holders
Add a starter shaft on the lower hull rear
Add the ducting for the Feifel air filters
Fill the holes above the driver's visor

David
Byrden
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Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 06:10 AM UTC
Gary;

Well, as you probably know by know, Cyber Hobby have released Carius' second Tiger in a dedicated kit. It has pre-molded Zimmerit. So that's your easiest route.

David
trickymissfit
Joined: October 03, 2007
KitMaker: 1,388 posts
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Posted: Monday, June 04, 2012 - 06:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Gary;

Well, as you probably know by know, Cyber Hobby have released Carius' second Tiger in a dedicated kit. It has pre-molded Zimmerit. So that's your easiest route.

David



I saw that, and that's going to be my route. I have another Carrius kit as well, but I think this one will be the best. Also have a Jagedtiger to see what I can do with
gary